I thought it might be interesting to show an email discussion I was in recently. This illustrates the divide between Tenthers and those who accept blindly what they have learned from government run schools.
—–Original Message—–
From: Lex [mailto:lex@electlex.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:45 AM
To: ‘My Friend’
Subject: RE: current politics
For those who don’t know it, I am working closely with the Tenth Amendment Center and some of my writings can be seen at www.illinois.tenthamendmentcenter.com For an interesting commentary on the issue of nullification, something that I believe in wholeheartedly, please check out Jack Hunter at:
—–Original Message—–
From: ‘My Friend’
Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2011 12:00 PM
To: Lex
Subject: RE: current politics
I figured that the issue of nullification was settled with the civil war. Or do we need another of those to resolve our current issues?
According to you, if the State and the Federal government are in conflict, why cannot each state decide which laws are acceptable and which are too inconvenient to obey?
Sorry, I don’t like your child labor, clean water, immigration or tax laws. If I have $100M to elect sympathetic state legislators to nullify those pesky federal laws, I can make a mint. Next week, we’ll introduce our plan to abolish unions and the 40-hour workweek. Oh, and Eisenhowers’s warning about the military-industrial complex is quite quaint.
Nullification is a dangerous idea. The Tenth Amendment was curtailed by the Fourteenth to guarantee equal protection under the law. Don’t like the law? Fight it at the federal level, not through nullification via the Tenth. We fought a Civil War 150 years ago over States Rights. Are we headed to round two? Because I see no political solution once nullification starts.
You say that the government is on its way to insolvency because of an unconstitutional overreach? I say it is due more to corruption. When we bestow $1T in tax credits for favored donors, there might be the appearance of impropriety. When the tax rate for the landed gentry, whose very prosperity is protected by the government they decry, cannot be raised lest the poor suffer, my sympathy falters.
We have 235 year of laws enacted by a duly elected Congress sign by Presidents. Which part don’t you think are constitutional?
—–Original Message—–
From: Lex [mailto:lex@electlex.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2011 9:55 AM
To: ‘My Friend’
Subject: RE: current politics
There are numerous errors and misapplied assumptions in your answer so let me respond. As a matter of fact, taking into account all of the founding documents and English common law, which SCOTUS does on its better considered decisions, there is, in fact, a number of limits upon and missions defined for government at all levels. The Constitution of the United States (COTUS for now) is small and concise in its explanation of the limits and permissions. Most of the law we have passed in the last 150 years (as well as much passed prior) is, in fact, beyond the limits prescribed. The fact that SCOTUS allows much of it is no different than saying that Dred Scott or Plessy Ferguson should be the law of the land because it has been ruled on already. In fact, they were not constitutional decisions.
Also, SCOTUS is not defined in the COTUS as being the one, or even one at all, definer of constitutionality, except specifically as allowed in Art. 3. It was in Marbury v. Madison that SCOTUS under Marshall took the liberty and has done so ever since. Madison and Jefferson stood up to the Alien and Sedition Acts with the Kentucky and Virginia resolves, but that case we decided by Jefferson’s election. However, there have been numerous cases of state’s powers defined and defended from then up until 1997. I’ll come back to that.
Congress is limited to Art. 1, Sec. 8 and no individual or state is indebted to any law that doesn’t conform to that Section because of the Supremacy Clause. It clearly states that only laws passed pursuant to the COTUS are supreme. Period. To address Joe’s expansion permissions under the Commerce Clause, there is ample evidence of a limited interpretation from founding documents. The intent was a limited government and Madison, among many others that you can find with a quick google, said that if the commerce clause is broadly applied, then the COTUS was unnecessary.
The commerce clause, as Madison wrote to Joseph Caball in 1798: “ …was intended as a negative and preventive provision against injustice among the States themselves, rather than as a power to be used for the positive purposes of the General Government..”
Joseph Story wrote about the commerce clause: “Can a power, granted for one purpose, be transferred to another? If it can, where is the limitation in the constitution? Are not commerce and manufactures as distinct, as commerce and agriculture? If they are, how can a power to regulate one arise from a power to regulate the other? It is true, that commerce and manufactures are, or may be, intimately connected with each other. A regulation of one may injuriously or beneficially affect the other. But that is not the point in controversy. It is, whether congress has a right to regulate that, which is not committed to it, under a power, which is committed to it, simply because there is, or may be an intimate connexion between the powers. If this were admitted, the enumeration of the powers of congress would be wholly unnecessary and nugatory.”
So at this point, I have pointed out the folly of the expanded definition of that clause. It is also helpful to note that SCOTUS has conflicting decisions on the matter into recent times. Lopez v. US clearly contradicts the liberal application that Joe prefers.
Back to the purpose of government and the appearance of conflict between the 10th and 14th. In fact there is no real conflict except in interpretation. In fact, states and the federal government were bound to honor the Bill of Rights by their agreement to the COTUS. Yet both conspired for about 75 years to keep slavery alive against their own law. Abolitionists and carpetbaggers, emboldened by the 13th, tried to abrogate the power of southern states that had trampled the rights of their people, but the 14th actually still leaves them intact except to step in when the states fail to do their legally required duty: to protect the rights of all of their citizens. (I’ll let you find the actual definition of the purpose of civil government in the founding documents on your own.)
This was addressed by SCOTUS in 1883 when overturning the 1875 civil rights law. Here is an excerpt: “Positive rights and privileges are undoubtedly secured by the Fourteenth Amendment; but they are secured by way of prohibition against State laws and State proceedings affecting those rights and privileges, and by power given to Congress to legislate for the purpose of carrying such prohibition into effect: and such legislation must necessarily be predicated upon such supposed State laws or State proceedings, and be directed to the correction of their operation and effect.…
And so in the present case, until some State law has been passed, or some State action through its officers or agents has been taken, adverse to the rights of citizens sought to be protected by the Fourteenth Amendment, no legislation of the United States under said amendment, nor any proceeding under such legislation, can be called into activity: for the prohibitions of the amendment are against State laws and acts done under State authority.… It is absurd to affirm that, because the rights of life, liberty and property (which include all civil rights that men have), are by the amendment sought to be protected against invasion on the part of the State without due process of law, Congress may therefore provide due process of law for their vindication in every case; and that, because the denial by a State to any persons, of the equal protection of the laws, is prohibited by the amendment, therefore Congress may establish laws for their equal protection.”
As far as federal laws that you list, child labor laws are dubious under the COTUS and actually hurt the poor worse than the rich, who can afford to live on dad’s income. The clean water act is covered under COTUS, as is immigration. Taxing according to clause 1 of Art. 1 Sec 8 and the 16th Amendments are ok, but the code as it exists with out apportionment and so many unequal exemptions and loopholes is clearly unconstitutional.
As to the danger in nullification, please remember that we have had many examples of nullification over the years. Illinois and 25 other states nullified the Real ID law by outlawing it under state law. It is resurgent and may be supported in Illinois this time around. Montana recently passed the Firearms Freedom Act which points out that any gun manufactured, sold and used solely with in state borders is exempt from federal law. The BATF has stated they will not recognize the state law, but then have refused to test it. California effectively nullifies unconstitutional marijuana law with a battery of state and local statute. The DEA has emphatically denied their permission, but except for a few minor lapses, is obeying the boundary. Nullification already occurs by legislation, executive order and court decisions more often then you recognize.
Finally, I will get back to the SCOTUS view of state’s powers and their right to ignore unconstitutional federal law. Sheriff Richard Mack, who I have the pleasure of meeting last year, was a key player in Mack, Printz v. US. Sheriff Mack was elected in Arizona and was ordered by the federal government to execute the Brady gun ban under the Clinton Administration. He refused. He cited his oath to protect and defend the COTUS. Since the law was clearly unconstitutional, his claim was that he could not administer it. Federal Judge John Roll ruled “Mack is thus forced to choose between keeping his oath or obeying the act, subjecting himself to possible sanctions.” The government appealed and on June 27, 1997, the Brady Bill was ruled to be unconstitional in the SCOTUS. The basis of the ruling was the 1992 decision in New York v. the US: “We have held, however, that the state legislatures are not subject to federal direction … The Federal Government may not compel the States to enact or administer a federal regulatory program.” In Scalia’s opinion in Printz, he said, “Residual state sovereignty was also implicit, of course, in the constitution’s conferral upon Congress of not all governmental powers but only discrete enumerated ones.” Sheriff Mack effectively nullified the Brady bill in his county by his actions and that led to a victory for state’s powers activists like me.
Do we have to fight another civil war to re-establish the proper balance of power and restore constitutional government? According to our Declaration of Independence, “when a long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” I think I have established a credible base for the usurpations of the power of the states and the overstepping of the constitutional limits of Congress. How far we go until it is absolute despotism is a bit subjective. I certainly believe we are closer than you believe.
Finally, I want to address something from Joe’s email of today in which he defers to the decisions of leaders and professors, whom he feels is more qualified than he to make these decisions and analyses. I disagree than any of them knows better than me until they address my concerns to my satisfaction. Simply saying “SCOTUS says so, so it is” will never be enough in my book. These concepts do not require a Ph. D. to understand. I think more people need to confidently become involved, as equals, or we will continue as an oligarchy of corporate interests who care not for the tranquilized masses.
- Lex













